Curse

Woman in Heat · Nov 15, 2005, 11:56 PM // 23:56

I vote to change it back and have good reasons IMO and my belief is as ALLSTATE put it at end of his/her post :"a company that continues to aim at the veterans of the game.". i am really begining to believe this from the changes i see on every update.
i have had GW for a couple months or so now and everytime i try to work my way up to certain things in the game an update comes along and changes everything.
one example is the priests that had the upgrades and skills to unlock using faction points for certain items, i had like 480 faction points at the time and just before reaching 1000 faction points almost enough to trade for something an update comes along and removes them.Hrrmmmzzzz! wonder why?, I bet Vets got the better deal on that while it lasted.

another example:i remember when Ectos,Shards,and Materials were allot cheaper,i wanted Fissure armor for my characters also just like the Vets had. now prices of the items you need to get Fissure Armor have sky rocketed now that i am starting to make the Plats they did everything goes up in price. Ectos and shards have almost doubled in price superior vigor and absorbtion have tripled
Bet those veterans got that stuff cheaper.Prolly half the cost we pay now.i hear ECTO Drops are really scarce now wonder how often they droped a few months or so back.

No Offense to the VETERAN's of the game my problem is not with you heck i admire alot of the veterans in some ways it just seems that every goal i try to accomplish in the game it gets pushed further and further back due to updates that seem to be in the Veterans favor.

those are just a few and there are alot of other reasons that make me feel its becoming a Veterans game.

makes me want to start repaying monthly/yearly again for my Planetside and other SOE games again.

Saider maul · Nov 15, 2005, 11:56 PM // 23:56

I have spent several days working on building around the update with lil sucess. Every AOE spell has been made useless. Might as well Remove them from the game.Henchies are worse then ever how can ya fight if its nothing but a scramble?
Why can't we compromise here. Let the monks have zelots and sheild of judgement because the monk has to spend extra energy to do any dmg. neither is a high dmg spell. and 2 out of 4 leave us at 50% of our former funtionality. Whit a a smite monk without aoe skills??
As for the mages let them have malestorm and firestorm back neither has truely high dmg and its only a chance to be hit in the aoe. I have noticed the mosters running from even burst spells. So that deminishes the elementals power even more. Allow the burst spells to work as well.
As for the rest of aoe spells i suggest a 2 second reaction delay on enemy and henchies with fighters ignoring aoe effect bacause its their job to fight up fron not run away. This will give us some protection as well as a lil functionality of what aoe spells make them run.
The game can be hard enough and i understand why you did this but ya went to far. If you want to regulate the trade market put in a wepon mod trader and add sheilds to armorer. This will keep everyone competitive with the traders.
I made a solo monk to fund my pve characters because the market is out of control and people using the money to sell on ebay is rediculious. If ya make these changes i think you will find the game to have both increased difficulty for the players and a better more regulated market as well as everyone being satisfied with at least half the aoe working for both monk and elementals.

Thank you for your time,

Saider Maul

JodieFoster · Nov 16, 2005, 01:19 AM // 01:19

-----Opinions-----

The update has the correct idea but was poorly implemented.

AoE farming was imbalanced.

AoE non-farming was not imbalanced.

ANET did the right thing.

I never cared much for the underworld/fissure (and hence never played in them).

-----Facts-----

I have 7 lvl 20's (one of each class and 2 warriors).

I have two account's and run myself to droknars.

I cannot think of a better fix to the problems that existed.

I still have many places I can farm with other builds.

Smite farming is still possible, however takes longer.

I smite farm with both W/Mo and Mo/W.

-----Conclusion-----

I believe that this path is probably a preperation for things to come in the expansion. ANET has been very good to me throughout my relationship with them, and for that, I have a great amount of respect for anything they do. They are good company with excellent customer service, and really listen to your feedback. I wish there were another way to fix the problems, but as stated above, I cannot think of one. This is how it must be.

-Jodie

TB_ · Nov 16, 2005, 02:07 AM // 02:07

Its obvious Im seeing this differently, this patch has made AoE farming a snap, all you need to do is have 1-2 AoE spells to keep the monsters in a panic vs fighting, then you can just take'em down with a few standard spells. Ive already seen builds like this used in the Furnace and with fewer members than before the patch which means more profit. Oh, and Im not a fan of the change, PvE was already to easy.

{IceFire} · Nov 16, 2005, 02:14 AM // 02:14

turn back the update now. monsters are suposed to be dumb. ^^

XvArchonvX · Nov 16, 2005, 04:53 AM // 04:53

Quote:

Originally Posted by JodieFoster

-----Opinions-----

The update has the correct idea but was poorly implemented.

AoE farming was imbalanced.

AoE non-farming was not imbalanced.

ANET did the right thing.

I never cared much for the underworld/fissure (and hence never played in them).

-----Facts-----

I have 7 lvl 20's (one of each class and 2 warriors).

I have two account's and run myself to droknars.

I cannot think of a better fix to the problems that existed.

I still have many places I can farm with other builds.

Smite farming is still possible, however takes longer.

I smite farm with both W/Mo and Mo/W.

-----Conclusion-----

I believe that this path is probably a preperation for things to come in the expansion. ANET has been very good to me throughout my relationship with them, and for that, I have a great amount of respect for anything they do. They are good company with excellent customer service, and really listen to your feedback. I wish there were another way to fix the problems, but as stated above, I cannot think of one. This is how it must be.

-Jodie

very well stated...

XvArchonvX · Nov 16, 2005, 05:02 AM // 05:02

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mahanaxar

Be realistic please. How much time to do long missions like THK with brilliant strategies like these?
I'm talking about occasional pug players, wich are the biggest percentage.

What makes you think that using something like imagined burden before using meteor shower will make a mission take that much longer? If time is that much of an issue for these "pug players" then they probably won't make it to or even try to deal with missions like Thunderhead. Besides, what's wrong with skills like Phoenix that cause massive dmg in one strike? Whether you want to admit it or not, missions that are as hard as thunderhead keep require strategy before they are attempted whether the enemies will run from AoE skills or not, the only difference is that the strategy is now a bit different. It still takes just as long to implement.

Besides, maybe now groups will start to aknowledge the importance of rangers, necros and mesmers instead of trying to gorge on just tanks, monks, and nukers...

XvArchonvX · Nov 16, 2005, 05:12 AM // 05:12

Quote:

Originally Posted by Saider maul

I have spent several days working on building around the update with lil sucess. Every AOE spell has been made useless. Might as well Remove them from the game.Henchies are worse then ever how can ya fight if its nothing but a scramble?
Why can't we compromise here. Let the monks have zelots and sheild of judgement because the monk has to spend extra energy to do any dmg. neither is a high dmg spell. and 2 out of 4 leave us at 50% of our former funtionality. Whit a a smite monk without aoe skills??
As for the mages let them have malestorm and firestorm back neither has truely high dmg and its only a chance to be hit in the aoe. I have noticed the mosters running from even burst spells. So that deminishes the elementals power even more. Allow the burst spells to work as well.
As for the rest of aoe spells i suggest a 2 second reaction delay on enemy and henchies with fighters ignoring aoe effect bacause its their job to fight up fron not run away. This will give us some protection as well as a lil functionality of what aoe spells make them run.
The game can be hard enough and i understand why you did this but ya went to far. If you want to regulate the trade market put in a wepon mod trader and add sheilds to armorer. This will keep everyone competitive with the traders.
I made a solo monk to fund my pve characters because the market is out of control and people using the money to sell on ebay is rediculious. If ya make these changes i think you will find the game to have both increased difficulty for the players and a better more regulated market as well as everyone being satisfied with at least half the aoe working for both monk and elementals.

Thank you for your time,

Saider Maul

Ok, first of all, a smite monk without AoE skills is a smite monk, not a solo monk, which is the point of the update.

Second of all, you say you need a solo monk because the market is out of control. Have you ever thought that the imbalance of funds was due to the ease of attaining funds through solo farming? Ever wonder how those people on Ebay get so much money? I personally wouldn't be the least bit surprised if they solo monk to earn it. Even if they don't the fact that there are so many solo monks around earning lots of cash while other people who are starting out or choose to go with another build are s.o.l. To put it simply, I think solo monks are a large contributing factor to an imbalanced economy, if any in guild wars (which I don't really believe to be a problem), and by making a solo monk to try to earn money, you are simply hurting the economy more.

Finally, even if farming is supposed to be legitamate and is not the cause for any economic instabilities, this game is meant for group battles. Therefore, it was not meant for people to prosper by going solo. Why do you think that so many professions are designed to be complimentary? GW is a game that is meant to be played in teams, even if your team is a bunch of henchies (which btw is smarter now as well, even though no one bothers to mention it).

long story short, this isn't the end of GW and the game isn't really any harder than before...

Swehurn · Nov 16, 2005, 06:59 AM // 06:59

There's a lot of talk about solo farmers being the downfall of the GW economy because of the extra cash they make...but somehow, I doubt that many farmers can generate nearly as much gold as runners.

There was somebody on these forums (too lazy to track down the thread) talking about the easy 30k per hour they make by running people through the Elona Reach mission, and I can't imagine making nearly that much farming.

Sure, the extra gold the farmers make is a contributing factor to inflation - but at least that's somewhat balanced by the increased supply (and as we all know, more supply tends to lead to lower prices) of weapons, runes, upgrades, ecto, and shards that they inject into the economy. Runners, whether they be "standard runners" or "mission runners" are probably more of an economic threat than farmers.

If this latest update has (as it's been reported) made running even easier due to the AoE effects, I don't think the economy's going to make any vast leaps ahead any time soon...

coolsti · Nov 16, 2005, 07:26 AM // 07:26

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mahanaxar

Be realistic please. How much time to do long missions like THK with brilliant strategies like these?
I'm talking about occasional pug players, wich are the biggest percentage.

This statement represents one of the most idiotic standpoints of today's GW player!!!

How much time SHOULD a mission take to complete? What is wrong with a mission taking a few hours to get finished? Hey guys, the PVE part of GW is a game to be played, and the name of the game is to battle through missions and quests. Ok, there are the side things like searching for nice creature drops, but primarily, the PVE part of this game is all about building up your character by performing quests and missions. Why is everyone so interested in reducing the quests and missions to take as little time and effort as possible? I mean, come on, the missions ARE the predominant part of the PVE part of this game.

My friend got to the Iron Mines mission last night, and so we started to form a group to do infusion+mission+bonus. A ranger joins the group and after finding out we were not intending on running the infusion part, he replied "no one fights this mission". WTF???? Is that the general belief these days?

And what is this BS about it taking too long to perform missions without a fire nuking elementalist? I've played all the missions at least a few times without any fire elementalists, and if the team plays well, they don't take significantly longer than with a fire nuker.

BTW, last night I met an elementalist playing air magic, not because of the patch but just because it was more fun for him. I made the same move with my elementalist, to air+earth, months ago for the same reason. But I felt always a bit wierd entering parties as elementalist, since most PUGS expect the elementalist to be a level 16 fire nuker. And playing air elementalist without AOE is a lot of fun and a lot of help to a group, e.g. with weakening and blinding spells as well as direct damage spells. Thankfully the recent patch will allow for a more "guilt-free" move from fire to air elementalist.

coolsti · Nov 16, 2005, 07:36 AM // 07:36

Quote:

Originally Posted by GWGuru

so why not just remove the mobs from the game entirely. Just put mobs in the missions. You obviously don't want to have actually have to pay attention while running from A to B so wouldn't it just be better to have nothing out there?

Oh please, no one at Anet take this guy seriously!!! Hello, there ARE people out there who play this game without running! There ARE people out there who see it as part of the game to fight from point A to B. How about this suggestion: instead of removing mobs outside of missions to make life easier for runners, how about a new patch that makes running completely impossible?

Anet should seriously consider a patch where a person's character gets fatter the more they run. Then we can easilly recognize the characters that run the game, i.e. the fat ones, from ones who play out the PVE fully.

Edit: on second read, perhaps GWGuru meant his response in a sarcastic manner. If that is the case, please excuse!

SA_DEMON · Nov 16, 2005, 08:25 AM // 08:25

One thing i want Anet to do is make sure these low levels in the Crystal desert get taken care of. They keep thinking alot of us are going to just help them to the next point which i think is a waste of everyone's time Anet needs to add Level REQ to each town to stop them. Lowest lvl seen to date in desert was a lvl 6.

I think many of you have either seen them around or got bugged to get them to the next place. Even if they finished the game already with a previous character i see them capable to do it again. So if Anet does anymore updates thats what i would like something done about.

aron searle · Nov 16, 2005, 08:31 AM // 08:31

Quote:

Originally Posted by SA_DEMON

One thing i want Anet to do is make sure these low levels in the Crystal desert get taken care of. They keep thinking alot of us are going to just help them to the next point which i think is a waste of everyone's time Anet needs to add Level REQ to each town to stop them. Lowest lvl seen to date in desert was a lvl 6.

I think many of you have either seen them around or got bugged to get them to the next place. Even if they finished the game already with a previous character i see them capable to do it again. So if Anet does anymore updates thats what i would like something done about.

Not all of them are pests, and those that are you can just ignore.

Alof of them are in it for the unlocks, or just something to do with another charachter.

Let people play the game their own way is my way of thinking.

coolsti · Nov 16, 2005, 08:40 AM // 08:40

Quote:

Originally Posted by aron searle

Not all of them are pests, and those that are you can just ignore.

Alof of them are in it for the unlocks, or just something to do with another charachter.

Let people play the game their own way is my way of thinking.

Maybe, maybe not. It all depends on your viewpoint. It could be argued that the reason why skills have to be unlocked is because you need to earn them, not have them given to you on a platter. So it could be argued that running a character through the game to unlock skills is a major no-no.

It all depends on your viewpoint. My opinion? Thumbs down on the runners.

kvndoom · Nov 16, 2005, 08:57 AM // 08:57

Quote:

Originally Posted by SA_DEMON

One thing i want Anet to do is make sure these low levels in the Crystal desert get taken care of. They keep thinking alot of us are going to just help them to the next point which i think is a waste of everyone's time Anet needs to add Level REQ to each town to stop them. Lowest lvl seen to date in desert was a lvl 6.

I think many of you have either seen them around or got bugged to get them to the next place. Even if they finished the game already with a previous character i see them capable to do it again. So if Anet does anymore updates thats what i would like something done about.

To comment on that, don't group everyone in the same category. My Monk henchhiked (new GW term, maybe?) through most of Kryta, got to ToA so I could have 7 henchies, hiked down to Fisherman's and Sanctum, then went through Sanctum Cay mission to get to Amnoon at level 9. I henchhiked from Amnoon to every town / outpost except for Thirsty River, and monked every mission except Elona (after grouping with total idiots to beat Dunes, I needed a break so I paid a runner. I had to monk Thirsty, but 5 of our 6 were guildies, so it wasn't too painful). I fought for and bought the items to get all collector's desert armor. I Ascended at level 17, and beating the doppleganger bumped me up to 20. I beat Dragon's Lair with all henchies and got to Droknar's yesterday. Henchhiked to Iron Mines and Port Sledge and there I am until I get to play again this weekend.

Not everyone who speeds through the game doesn't know how to play it.

aron searle · Nov 16, 2005, 09:00 AM // 09:00

Quote:

Originally Posted by coolsti

Maybe, maybe not. It all depends on your viewpoint. It could be argued that the reason why skills have to be unlocked is because you need to earn them, not have them given to you on a platter. So it could be argued that running a character through the game to unlock skills is a major no-no.

It all depends on your viewpoint. My opinion? Thumbs down on the runners.

Good points but.

My opinion, let people play how they want.

This also isnt just aimed at you but alot of posters, hell even me sometimes, who think that the game should be played X way.

I love the fact that this game allows for so many styles of playing.

Annoying pesterrers (word?) are going to be annoying and pestering no matter what, dont get them confused with all runners.

And as to the earning the skills part just remember, they had to earn the gold to get run. (unless they begged and moaned in which case no sensible person should touch them).

coolsti · Nov 16, 2005, 09:14 AM // 09:14

Quote:

Originally Posted by aron searle

Good points but.

My opinion, let people play how they want.

This also isnt just aimed at you but alot of posters, hell even me sometimes, who think that the game should be played X way.

I love the fact that this game allows for so many styles of playing.

Annoying pesterrers (word?) are going to be annoying and pestering no matter what, dont get them confused with all runners.

And as to the earning the skills part just remember, they had to earn the gold to get run. (unless they begged and moaned in which case no sensible person should touch them).

I don't entirely agree. Earning the money to pay for a run is no where near the effort of earning skill unlocks through playing the game without running. Anyone who played the game at least for a while and has a higher level character has enough money to get run anywhere.

And it could be argued that earning skill unlocks by playing the game rather than running is preferred (e.g. by Anet) because along with this comes the experience needed to know how those skills can be properly used. It could be argued that what is totally annoying to players like myself, who like to play in PUG groups instead of with only henchies all the time, is to get into parties with people that really don't know how to play their character class. It could be the case that Anet wishes to preserve the sanctity of the PVE game as it was designed, and not let it degrade to the running-only mess that it is rapidly becoming, for the sake of the game and for the sake of players like myself. So it is a matter of viewpoint. Anet makes the final decisions, and it seems that they are not shy about taking actions through upgrades and patches.

aron searle · Nov 16, 2005, 09:23 AM // 09:23

Quote:

Originally Posted by coolsti

, is to get into parties with people that really don't know how to play their character class.

My monk (2nd charachter), was run to droks and the desert. And i know that im definatly better than average.

People dont know how to play their charachters because they dont take the effort to learn all the little tricks.

Peoples level of skill is not affected by running.

Quote:

by playing the game rather than running

This is my point, running the game is playing it, but not just to YOUR style.

I agree i like to fight later missions, but some i dont so i get run, let people be.

kvndoom · Nov 16, 2005, 09:26 AM // 09:26

As has been said, don't nerf farming, nerf the reason. What's the reason? Why do people need (or just want) lots of gold?

Mostly for 2 things:

High-priced armor
"perfect" weapons and items

But Anet wants you to play, not farm. Fair enough. Then there should be a reward for PLAYING that overrides the reward for FARMING or buying gold off ebay. In other words, make the above items available inexpensively for people who actually accomplish something in PVE.

After beating Hell's Precipice, instead of being carted back to Droknar's Forge, you gain access to an area where you can have Fissure Armor crafted, for the SAME price as Droknar's. It's a reward for PLAYING the game, not for gathering an insane amount of gold / ectos.

War Camp cannot be accessed by anyone who hasn't beaten Hell's (it breaks the storyline anyway). Sorrow's Furnace bosses no longer drop greens. Instead, after you've beaten all the quests and Final Assault, you gain access to an area where you can buy green items at a REASONABLE price. A reward for PLAYING, not FARMING. Sure there will be those who just buy them and sell to people who don't want to do the missions, but then they have to weigh the high cost of not playing versus the low cost of playing. In War Camp the "LFG Farming" seems to outweigh the "LFG questing" by about 10 to 1. Was that the original intent of incorporating green items?

Finishing all the Titan Quests and reporting back to Glint opens up a new area where you can buy perfect weapon upgrades, at LOW cost. Again, a reward for playing, not for money. Yeah it can be abused as above, but the glut will drive prices down, reducing the need for lots of gold.

While they're at it, block access to Droknar's from Beacon's Perch. Removes the need for lots of money early on for runners / Forge armor, and keeps the level 2 players with Elites and Forge armor out of Ascalon Arena.

And close off the Temple of Ages to Sanctum Cay run also. A 20 minute run allows you to skip 1/3 of the entire game (Maguuma). People want to reach the desert, let them work for it.

Shortcuts, e-penis statistics, and vanity are what drives the Guild Wars economy. Drive people to earn their keep and offer desirable rewards for playing instead of farming, and maybe, just maybe farming won't be such a huge thorn in the side.

Andy_M · Nov 16, 2005, 11:05 AM // 11:05

Quote:

Originally Posted by kvndoom

And close off the Temple of Ages to Sanctum Cay run also. A 20 minute run allows you to skip 1/3 of the entire game (Maguuma). People want to reach the desert, let them work for it.

Well that would be because, lets face it the most annoying, pointless missions and quests are in the Maguuma area. And if i can get my level 9 from Lions Arch to TOA to Sanctum just using henchies then as far as I'm concerned thats easily effort enough to get to sanctum.